Marine alleging rape by another Marine to be tried for adultery

CAMP PENDLETON – A female Marine who says she was raped by a Marine in her squadron after a night of drinking is being tried at Camp Pendleton by special court martial for adultery, making false statements and impeding an investigation, it was reported today.

The woman, whose identity was withheld, and her alleged rapist are both staff sergeants who were assigned to Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 39 at Camp Pendleton in March 2012, when they had sex in a hotel room after several hours of drinking, according to U-T San Diego.

She pleaded not guilty on Monday, the newspaper reported, noting that she faced up to a year in jail, forfeiture of pay and a dishonorable discharge if convicted.

“The command does take sexual assault with the utmost gravity, and has decided to pursue this route to ensure that the sexual assault response process remains effective and maintains integrity for victims,” a 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing spokesman, 1st Lt. Tyler Balzer, told U-T San Diego.

The woman’s husband of 17 years — another Marine who works at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar — reported the alleged rape to her command after she told him she had been acting strangely because she cheated on him. She did not allege that she was sexually assaulted until after she learned she would be tried for adultery, according to court testimony.

”I made a poor decision,” the husband told U-T San Diego of his report to his wife’s command. ”I’m paying for it now and my wife is paying for it. …I was spiteful and I was angry. I didn’t have all the facts.”

The defense has said the woman failed to immediately report the sexual assault because she didn’t want to go through the trauma of what she thought would probably be a pointless investigation resulting in no punishment for her attacker.

The woman’s alleged rapist has denied any wrongdoing, testifying in court that he didn’t know she was married and that she didn’t appear too drunk to consent to sex. His name was also withheld because he has not been charged with any crime.

47 Responses to "Marine alleging rape by another Marine to be tried for adultery"

  1. grunt   April 23, 2013 at 7:41 am

    Good. Rape is a horrible thing, happens too often, but trying to cover your butt by false accusations does nothing but hurt the true victims. Her name should be publised, though, since male Marines that are court-martialed have thier names listed.

  2. Lee   April 23, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Gee, there’s a shocker.

    Those who kill also rape. Who’d a thunk it?!

  3. @ Lee   April 23, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Those who kill also rape? What are you talking about?

  4. Vet   April 23, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Reading obviously isn’t one of Lee’s talents. Read the story again. There wasn’t a rape. What a loser. Lee doesn’t deserve to live in this country.

  5. Roody2Shoes   April 23, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Before assumptions pertaining to this Marine’s case mount, it should be noted that in cases of alcohol facilitated sexual assault (AFSA) many victims are confused as to whether they’ve been raped. Additionally, more than 50% of all rapists are under the influence. That’s why its got to be proven in court that the victim wasn’t consciously consenting. AFSA cases are mucho difficult for obvious reasons. Given the DoD’s horrible track record for pursuing sex crimes charges (see below) which Congress is currently investigating, it isn’t surprising that the facts in this Marine’s case are being muddled when the truth may very well be that the alleged victim may be an all too familiar example of professional retaliation and marginalization. More than 19,000 sexual assaults are alleged to have occurred in the military in 2011, yet less than 10% are reported due to fear of retaliation (which is severe against those who report) and the fact that few cases are ever pursued due in large part to the fact that charges are handles at the SOLE DISCRETION of senior (until recently it was unit) commanders, who often know both the victim and assailant and who rarely has any legal training.Furthermore, the commanders have the "prerogative" to reverse both sentences and conviction rulings should a perpetrator actually be tried and convicted. Government studies reveal that more than 80 percent of raped service women do not report. They also show 33 percent not reporting specifically because the person to whom they were supposed to report to was a friend of the rapist. Wait

  6. ranger1911   April 23, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Lee….Shut up.

  7. Larry B.   April 23, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Grunt, I agree 100% with you. This woman has absolutely no integrity and should be drummed out of the Corps but only if her true name is published as a warning for those who may even consider doing such a horrible thing to a fellow Marine. It’s inexcusable.

  8. grunt   April 23, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    @5 – She told her husband she had been unfaithful, it was NOT until she found herself in trouble she claimed rape. No facts seen muddled to me. Also, personnel responsibility – do not drink more than you can control. Now as to the 19,000 alleged rapes but not reported — if not reported where does this number come from? and how many of the rapes accusations were founded? "Studies" show – which studies? The same one where "studies" show 80% of Americans favor outlawing firearms? It is too bad that those with an agenda often muddle up the facts.

  9. Roody2Shoes   April 23, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    As is rape, Larry B., as is rape. With almost 20 thousand service men and women enduring horrible sexual crimes at the hands of their peers each year then there is a serious institutional problem. Convoluted AFSA cases such as this only serve to exacerbate the issue.

    And folks, Lee’s assumption is factually substantiated in that studies do indicate the military draws those with more aggressive personality trait, including rapists.

  10. woman   April 23, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    I’m sorry – the article states they were drinking AND in a motel room. I am a woman and you would have to be a complete idiot to go to a motel room while intoxicated with a man and not know he is after something other than your enjoyable conversation! Its difficult for me to consider a woman being ‘raped’ at this point. Consenting to enter a motel room with a man pretty much says – ‘take me’. Maybe I am old fashioned but you just don’t go there if you aren’t interested. Now if during such an encounter violence occurs – I would suggest that is more like assault than rape. Women need to have respect for themselves and some values. She is married. Drinking with another man and consenting to go to a motel room is not something she should have been doing had she not wanted this man. Then to LIE about it and suggest somehow he dragged her into the room, kicking and screaming and ‘raping’ her is absurd and and an insult to good women that would not be caught in such a situation. YOUR comment " victims are confused as to whether they have been raped’ only should apply to anyone who has passed out and does not know what happened to them upon awakening. At which I would suggest that any man that would rape an unconscious women is the utmost of low pig and should be slaughtered as one.

  11. Re????   April 23, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    @woman, I totally agree with you. If you are a woman and decide to be silly enough to first drink to oblivion with another man in your presence other than your husband, you deserve to have the book thrown at you for being stupid. You know what you are looking for, and so does the other man. Give me a friggin break. This woman does not have her head screwed on straight, nor does she deserve the husband that was ready to protect her image, even though it was a lie. She deserves to be charged with adultery, and also pay the penalty of what the other man would have been charged if he was charged with rape. SHAME ON YOU!! Get some new ethics, and morals, yours are not working for you or anyone else.

  12. Roody2Shoes   April 23, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    I do not presume to be the jury or judge trying this woman and her guilt (lying) has yet to be established from what I understand. Rape is an emotionally packed crime without alcohol and–legally–AFSAs present loads of additional issues–for everyone–for the simple reason that alcohol results in confused memories. If you were to study rape you find that victims even in the absence of alcohol all too often try to avoid admitting they were raped. I can’t even imagine what someone–man or woman– trained in self defense experiences when raped by one’s own peers.) For info on AFSAs–should you genuinely be interested–feel free to go to RAINN’s website or BOJ’s. In rape cases it is the perpetrator’s innocence and character, not those of the victim, in question and for that reason I choose to not engage in discussions that focuses on anything but thereby perpetuating archaic misconceptions. As this isn’t an article about her rape trial, but rather the court martial that resulted because she (and her husband) reported I simply thought the above stats worth mentioning–again, for those interested. The military system is not like the civilian one–not at all–read the Code if in doubt. There is a HUGE substantiated pile of evidence (DoD reports and studies, the primary one of which is required each year by Congress; direct quotes by the Secretary of Defense; court records of the five cases against DoD and the Secretary; and coverage of the present Congressional hearing) that most of the less than 10% reporting are being pushed down this same road both men and women alike–even in the rare instances when their rapists are convicted. Thus, the fact that the man wasn’t charged in no way means she wasn’t raped if DoD reports are anything to go by. Nor the fact that she struggled with a host of emotions afterwards given AFSA stats. The fact that there are rapists convicted by military courts whose felony charge has been dropped by their commanders who still serve, never did time, have been promoted, and/or have been HONORABLY discharged into the American public certainly stirs some doubt into the way the military responds to rape. Rape falls within the term "Sexual Assault" because it IS a violent crime, second only to murder by BOJ standards. Slaughtering rapists–now that’s another discussion well worth having. It’s not like rape hasn’t been previously considered a capital offense in the States.

  13. woman   April 23, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Roody2Shoes. No one is discounting the validity of rape or a victim’s struggle with such an aweful event. No one is discounting that on military bases that rape occurs and is not addressed which leads to all kinds of emotional distress. What I am pointing out is that this article presents to us a woman – who is married but drinking with another man, and ends up in a motel room. Where in that motel room , drunk, she has sex with this man. Then has the audacity to call it rape. Once again, it is clear that the man entering the motel room fully expected that she knew what she was doing and was fine with it. The mere acceptance of such an invitation makes it pretty clear that he ‘wants some’. For her to accept that invitation and enter the motel room declares consent – if you think otherwise than you are really insulting a good moral woman’s intelligence. Once in the motel room, had she changed her mind, and made that clear, then the possibility exists that he wasn’t going to take ‘no’ for an answer, but If you don’t want to be ‘raped’ or have sex, or be a victim, you simply don’t go there in the first place and don’t put yourself in a position to have to worry if your intentions aren’t clear. Oh personal responsibility…too many just forget that not being a victim means being responsible.

  14. grunt   April 24, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Roody2shoes; not trying ot pick an argument, but when you (or the SECDEF or anyone) says that "only10% are reported" – where does that number come from? I have a hard time beleiveing that of the female Marines I know, for every one tha tis raped, 9 did not report it. These women are strong, confident, ballsy if you will. I think this, the 10%, is a mad eup statistic to justify someone’s goal.

    Sorry if that offends.

  15. Roody2Shoes   April 24, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Grunt–you may be interested in taking a peek at DoD’s Annual Report on Sexual Assault in the Military for Fiscal. The 2011 report stated that 3,192 sexual assaults had been reported. But, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said last April that figure represents only 13 percent of the rapes/sexual assaults estimated to have been committed. Panetta stated that despite the official report, 19,000 sexual assaults are alleged to have occurred in the Navy/Marines, Air Force, and Army. (The United States Coast Guard, not housed within the DoD, is the only military branch not required by Congress to submit the number of sexual assaults reported.)

    You asked about which accusations were unfounded. That’s just it–under the CODE, what happens to sex crime charges is the sole discretion of the Commander. DoD reports that most victims don’t report because they fear career retaliation and that their commanders will not do anything with their report. Commanders fear for their careers as well because in pursuing a sex crime charge they are admitting that such conducted happened on their watch under their command. Unlike civilians, service men and women are not currently entitled to an impartial third party investigation. And although illegal, retaliation is rampant, therefore institutionally enabled. It is what Congress, in large part, is investigating at present.

  16. Roody2Shoes   April 24, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Woman–I understand clearly what you all are saying. I am simply posing that AFSA cases are filled with these same issues–because of the alcohol and because of public impressions such as what is expressed here.

  17. The Truth   April 24, 2013 at 11:02 am

    You can not rape the willing! Let me repeat that. You can not rape the willing!!! She was not at that motel with him to stare at the walls, unless of course, they were tripping on drugs. In any case, we we’re not there to witness what was going on. But it really does not take a Rhodes Scholar to figure this one out. Now, did he know she was married? I don’t know. Either way he’s got to be two cans short of a six pack to mess with a woman like that. That is truth my friends 🙂

  18. Wilby   April 24, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Bottom line by all appearances of this story, they both deserve each other.

  19. Carla   April 24, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    @10 Yeah right! If you enter a hotel room that equates to consent for being raped. FAIL! A woman has an absolute right to give or withdraw consent to intercourse at ANYTIME at HER choosing. Clearly misogyny isn’t exclusively a problem with men. There’s an awful lot of self loathing women out there of whom you seem to be a prime example.

    Regarding the specifics of this case or the information I have before me, I’m not ready to believe nor disbelieve either the female marine or her alleged assailant.

  20. Reality Checker   April 24, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I did 20 years in the Navy, retired in ’05. Was stationed at Great Lakes Naval Training Center for eight of those running one of the largest and most populated technical schools there. We called similar situation like these "Morning After Morals", where one of the previously willing participants suddenly reported they were raped to prevent thier spouse or their parents from discovering what drunk sluts they really were. In any given year, at that time, we averaged approx 16,000 students on the base. In one year, I believe it was 1992, we had what we thought to be, to our best knowledge, about 150 acquaintance rapes that went unreported. Those that were reported, almost always were "Morning After Morals", and reported as rapes due to guilt, embarrasment, whatever, that were actually consentual encounters. That’s what happens when you mix male and female military. I’m not saying females aren’t good, thy absolutely are. Just saying that with the female population introduced into the military, this is what happens. It destroys moral, and he careers of the members involved. Remember, most in the military are between 19 and 24 years old. They have little control over thier raging hormones. The guys think with the little head, and that is a major distraction from what they should be concentrating on, which is wartime readiness. Thier too busy thinking about banging that chick that works with them than what fittings that need to be secured during GQ, and the best way to get to thier battle stations. Or, how to draw a weapon from the armory, or, how to operate that big gun or missile launcher, or what all the different symbols mean on their radar scopes, and, even how to triage and do first aid, and how to fight a fire underway! What most civilians seem to miss is this kind of crap is destroying our military might. It absolutely is. All for stinking "political correctness".
    Let me tell you all something, how politicall correct the military is wont matter to the enemy. The enemy isn’t going to stop and take notice, and turn around and leave saying " wow, I can’t kill you now!, your so politically correct, I can’t kill you! Believe me, they see it as a weakness and they smell blood in the water and they are studying ways to use our political correctness against us. And they will. You won’t win a war unless your ready for a hard, bloody fight. Our military couldn’t fight it’s way out of a wet paper bag compared to how ready it was in 1945.
    Our priorities are upside down and inside out, bass-ackwards WRONG!!!!!!!!!

  21. Hmmm   April 24, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Interesting how untill she was going to be tried for adultry it wasn’t a rape… then suddenly it was when she was labeled adulterer

  22. Roody2Shoes   April 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Reality Checker–According to DoD, most of the rapes being reported are by service MEN, not women. Not that rape is–was–ever strictly a woman’s issue given rapists (as revealed through voluntary surveys completed by incarcerated rapists) appear to be rarely discriminating. I get what you’re saying about morning after regrets (common with excessive alcohol). Such scenarios, as well as blatant lairs, certainly contribute to the problem true victims face.

    Your comments echo a judge who recently ruled that rape is an occupational hazard for ANYone who enlists in the military. (That case is pending appeal.) Does beg the question–who’s the enemy?–and does shed a new light on the term "friendly fire", no?

    At any rate, it will be interesting to see how her trial turns out.

  23. woman   April 24, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    Again- I repeat – personal responsibility. Oh forgot – in todays’ overly liberal mindset being responsible is archaic and ignorant just as Roody2shoes describes me. Sorry I am not buying it. You don’t walk down a dark alley drunk without a weapon in the middle of the night because odds are you might be assaulted. Do you deserve to be assaulted – no, but odds are it will happen! So you take responsibility for your safety and you DON’T GO THERE. Personal Responsibility – I’ll say it again – prevent yourself from being victimized by not being a dumb…. The women in this story is a dumb… for going into a motel room – drunk- with another man (or maybe not- maybe she GOT what SHE WANTED). Oh and Carla lives in a bubble thinking that a drunk horny man is going to ‘respect her’ sudden change of thought while her panties are down. She too, someday will be crying ‘rape’ – personal responsibility girls – pull your head out of your liberal bubbles and see REALITY for what it truly is. You TOO can prevent rape! We don’t need a DOD study to figure that out girls!

  24. Reality Checker   April 24, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Roody, I think you are misundertstanding my point. I never said how many were men, or how many we’re women. That’s not the point of my post, not even close. You are reading something into my post that just isn’t there my friend. And how do my comments compare to some pea brained judges comment that rape is an occupational hazard? How do you get that from reading my post? Does anyone else here see that in my post? Where the h… do you find any parallels to the judges comment compared to what I said? You have an amazing gift of reading things that aren’t there. Do you always read what you want to hear rather than what is actually written?
    And your “friendly fire” comment is absurd. There aren’t any military members on active duty that are committing rape on thier peers as a way to aid the enemy. Sounds like you’re just another armchair quarterbacking citizen with no military experience and no clue to what military life is like. Not saying you have no right to your opinion, just that if you spew out stupid crap, people will know you’re not the brightest bulb in the pack.

  25. Pink   April 25, 2013 at 8:39 am

    You are absolutely right "woman" and I agree with everything you have said. I believe that rapists and child molesters should be shot and then hung by their feet in the town square, however I know and understand why that will never happen here, because we are supposedly civilized. However, if a woman, married or not, agrees to go to a motel room with a man, especially after imbibing too much alcohol, the chances are the man is going to believe that it is for sex, and I very much doubt that the woman believes that is to just "talk". Somewhere on the road to "liberation" women have lost their common sense.

  26. woman   April 25, 2013 at 10:10 am

    @Pink…and there ARE innocent victims for which our legal system should protect, but these women that overtly hop in bed with a man and then think they can say ‘no’ and be respected are mocking the system. Men need to be educated as well as to that type of ‘set up’ that can ruin their lives. Being the ignorant and archaic fool I am, (according to Roody) men need to heed moral and practical though too – taking a drunk dumbass married woman to a motel is just not responsible either.

  27. roody2shoes   April 25, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Woman…I did not comment on the poor judgement of either Marine. For the simple reason that stupidity isn’t a crime. Also, because regardless of how personally responsible a person is, how ballsy and confident, how armed, or how moral and intellegent, rape happens. I look forward to the day victims aren’t blamed for crimes done against them.

    Reality Checker…How comical…you presuming to know my political stance or professional background. Hysterically typical. No wonder these dialogues so rarely generate understanding. I gently suggest that you may be doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

    My, what an emotionally reactionary group we are here that folks feel its ok to cuss and call others names.

  28. grunt   April 25, 2013 at 12:31 pm


  29. Pink   April 25, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Stupidity isn’t a crime, but perhaps it should be. However, I don’t think that it was stupidity that caused the female Marine to go to a hotel room with a male Marine, after all, even a "stupid" woman knows what is going to happen if she gets intoxicated and agrees to go to a bedroom with some man who picked her up in a bar. As a woman myself, I too hope and pray for the day that a victim of rape is treated like a victim, not a criminal, but by the same token, a woman who cries "rape" when it isn’t "rape" sets real cases of criminal assault and rape back decades! Parents, teach your daughters to respect themselves and teach your son’s to show respect as well.

  30. Carla   April 26, 2013 at 8:20 pm


    "As to men beginning raped by other men, more men have reported rapes than women, but DoD considers these bullying or aggression, not sexual assaults- maybe to meet DoD and the Presidents views on homosexuality as good for the forces?"

    Anything to substantiate this otherwise baseless allegation against the President?

  31. Carla   April 26, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    @20…….yawn! Someone needs to move themselves out of the 19th century. Thankfully you’re retired and hopefully gone.

  32. Carla   April 27, 2013 at 1:40 pm


    Grunt- The articles you cited substantiate in ZERO part your claim that statistics are somehow being manipulated to supposedly "meet DoD and the Presidents views on homosexuality as good for the forces?" "

    Every report/survey cited in both articles (other than one narrative of male on male rape) were from before Obama was even inaugurated and well before repeal of the outrageously bigoted and offensive ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell’ policy.

    Anything else to backup your ridiculous assertions?

  33. grunt   April 27, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    sorry- did not you were supporting Obama – just read anything; for example the faked reports that the troops supported opening the military to gays; or listen to any of his comments on it – diversity is needed to win wars. But then, as you insult vice comment, I should have known you were an Obama fan.

  34. SB   April 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    @woman, I’m another woman who disagrees that entering a hotel room with someone should equate to expecting sex. It all depends. I’ve had male friends in my life that I would never expect that of. It is possible for a man and woman to just be friends. One should only expect to have sex if the other has said they’ll willingly do so, and even then, either party has the option to say no or change their mind at any point in the encounter.

    As for false accusations, I think only the outcome of the trial, and maybe not even that, will tell the real story, and for anyone with no direct knowledge to pass judgement on either party is futile.

  35. Seriously   April 28, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Oh for heaven’s sake SB, how old are you? If you really believe that going to a motel/hotel/bedroom of any sort with someone who picked you up in a bar, at a party, etc, especially where drinking is concerned, doesn’t mean they are expecting "sex" you need to have your head examined! If, once there, the woman changes her mind and says "NO" then obviously, the man should back off, he might not be happy about it, but he should respect it. There is no way, in "heck" a woman, with any common sense at all, is going to believe that they are going there just to chat. I’m a liberated woman, but I’m not an idiot.

  36. Redneck Bill   April 28, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    According to this article the female marine was convicted of attempted adultery and lying.,0,7841449.story

    I’m in the group that has seen first hand that women are treated differently in many areas where the treatment should be equal.

    I’m also in the group that believes anyone, man or woman, who drinks to excess and goes to a hotel room and doesn’t expect sex to occur, is deluding themselves.

  37. Reality Checker   April 29, 2013 at 5:00 am

    Like I said, its either "morning after morals", or, she has some kind of vendetta and thought this would work.

  38. Carla   April 29, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    @34- OK, I understand. You clearly are unable to cite anything whatsoever, "faked reports" or otherwise, to back up your apparently concocted and paranoid assumptions.

    Regarding "supporting Obama", well yes, I did vote for him if that’s what you’re inferring. Having said that, I still find the President’s policies far too conservative for my tastes but he still remains the best that I could ever hope for currently. Politics, the art of the possible as Bismarck once said.

  39. The Truth   April 30, 2013 at 8:46 am

    @ Carla Just because you are a liberated, educated woman. Doesn’t mean you can be a woman version of a jerk! Sure it’s your right to do so. But come on, have some respect for the Vets. With out them, you would not be free and all the bra burnings in the world wouldn’t help you! I can tell you what you are here for. But you are not going to like it! And it’s not even hateful only truth 🙂

  40. Redneck Bill   April 30, 2013 at 10:49 am

    @ The Truth (sort of)

    Disagreeing is not the same as disrespecting. Carla has disrespected no one on here, any more than you or I have.

    I always used to kind of jab my wife on the one Sunday of the year where the Gospel reading was the one that said, "wives be subservient to your husbands." The jab was in recognition of how inaccurate that Gospel admonition is. At least in my life. My wife loves me, and she does things for me; you could even say she takes care of me. But she is not subservient. Nor is my daughter. They both are educated, bra wearing, strong, smart women. And as appealing as the notion of having a wife who says nothing but, "yes dear", might be, I’m better off for having strong women in my life.

    The point here is that as black people, gay people, women and others who have in the past been considered to have less stature than us white men make inroads to equality, there will be tension among those who wish to preserve the old order.

  41. The Truth   April 30, 2013 at 11:22 am

    @ Redneck Bill Don’t be making assumptions of what I said, Sir. And I am not going to point anything out to you either. You are a Redneck, right? I am sure you will figure it out! You seem like a good man. I wouldn’t want to question your redneckness.

  42. Redneck Bill   April 30, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    @ The Truth

    If I misinterpreted your comment, "But come on, have some respect for the Vets", I apologize. In my simple mind, and I know it’s simple because my wife reminds me often, it seemed you were saying Carla wasn’t showing respect, or put another way, disrespecting.

    And then you go on to say, "I can tell you what you are here for. But you are not going to like it." Acknowledging that you’ve already told me not to make assumptions about what you said, I can only guess that means to make babies or take care of a man.

    So there are some jobs women just physically can not do. But to write off half the population and say they should just stay home and make babies seems shortsighted to me. Aside from the fairness issue, we face enormous problems in this country. To exclude half the population from contributing to the solutions to our problems makes no sense.

  43. Pink   April 30, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Come on now RB finish the scripture. Epesians 5:22 "wives submit to your husband’s as you would to the Lord, and husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church". Means that submission stuff has to run both ways…. I know that people just love to misquote that one (especially men) I also know you were kidding RB, my husband quoted that one to me a few times as well, of course I just ignored him. (-:
    I have never particularly thought of myself as a "feminist". It just never occurred to me that I wasn’t equal, always believed that I was equal, if not in brawn, then certainly in brain, and anytime that some silly man acted like he was superior to me, even if he was my boss, I just laughed at him. Worked most every time. I was raised to believe, by both my parents, that I could be anything that I wanted to be and smart enough to become. After all this is the United States of America. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I rarely agree with Carla. I don’t think that she understands what makes this country great, she despises the military and want’s to see a socialist regime, I have no desire to become a government controlled sheep. We may have some serious issues in this country, but it beats the heck out of places like the middle east and North Korea, the only time I plan to cover my head is when it’s hot out or raining.

  44. Redneck Bill   April 30, 2013 at 9:15 pm


    Of course I was kidding about the scripture. (Isn’t there also a Gospel that says the same thing?) Well there should be, and they should read it every Sunday. He, he.

    My wife isn’t a feminist either, but she is very feminine. And strong. Stronger than many women. There was a period when I was gone to sea 7 to 8 months every year, year in and year out. She worked full time, took care of the kids, managed our affairs and somehow kept her sanity. I know Mr. Pink was a Marine so I’m sure you can relate.

    I can tell you are a strong woman as well Pink. But there are times when that alone isn’t enough. As an example, I was friends with my wife’s boss at one of our duty stations. He told me my wife should be ranked 1st among her peers on her fitness report based on her performance, but he didn’t rank her there because he said, I had a well paying job and she didn’t need the ranking.

    My problem is with treating women different than men when they do exactly the same job. (Or not even giving them the chance.) Perhaps you never experienced this kind of distinction, but the fact that the Equal Pay law was enacted tells us there is inequity.

    As for Carla, I think different opinions are like different genes. They make us stronger. I don’t agree with everything she says, but at least she’s engaged, and at least she makes you think.
    To be honest with you, I didn’t always appreciate what I had been given being born an American. But I know now I am one of the most fortunate beings on the planet. Carla and her peers are our future. I think we’ve left them a mess, but I wish them well.

  45. Pink   May 1, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Actually my husband was Army RB, but I have a Marine son in law. I am proud of them both. Like your wife I had to take on the responsibility for running the house, managing the money and raising the kids most of the time in our early years, and it did indeed make me stronger. Please don’t misunderstand me, I have also been the victim of discrimination because I’m a woman, but being a pretty opinionated and strong gal I always fought back, also being somewhat crafty I usually found a way to either overcome the situation or go around it. Perhaps because I am a woman I have learned to appreciate the advantages and the freedoms this country offers because, unlike you "white" males, I didn’t take these rights for granted, they weren’t handed to me on a silver platter. I also understood that while we had some issues with equality here we certainly didn’t have it as bad as women in other countries had it, and at least we could fight back without fear of imprisionment or death! While I appreciate the feminists who got us equal pay, I just feel that in some instances they went too far. I believe that women were sold a bill of goods, the majority of women today not only work full time but they have to in order to make ends meet and they have to still take care of the kids and the household chores. Not seeing much liberation there. I raised strong daughters and they in turn are raising strong daughters, they are also teaching their daughters, as I taught them, to respect themselves, to love their country and to honor God. I agree RB that everyone in this country has a right, just as Carla does to express their opinion, I don’t want to see us lose that right, and that is what will happen if the kind of government that people like Carla advocate is put in power. I believe that you and I RB, are both old enough to realize that no matter what kind of "idealized" government we put in place, the person on top will always be the one driving the big car and living in the big house, and no matter how hard we try to change it, they will always have corrupt people pulling the strings.

  46. Redneck Bill   May 1, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    I agree with you 100% Pink about the person on top driving the big car and having the large house. I think part of my early disenchantment with America was the inequity I saw not only in the example you gave, but how the black kids and their families I grew up with were treated. Here was this ideal, and then there was the reality.

    But as happens with many of us, as we grow and mature our head comes out of our arse, we look around, and see that things aren’t so bad. And in my case, being a sailor and seeing first hand how my country compared to others, well there was and still is no comparison.

    Maybe because of the experience I described I have a bit more tolerance for people who don’t see things as I do. I don’t mean we don’t have something very special as Americans, but I also see a larger picture. God has given us amazing gifts, and look what we’ve done. We fight each other and we’re (in my opinion) destroying the planet on which we all live. So I no longer stress like I used to about who controls the White House or Congress. As I get closer and closer to my personal judgement day, I just hope I’m on the guest list and get in. And I hope the kids taking our place have their poop together because they have some serious challenges.


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